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Bassphil
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Location: NYC
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 Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: How to use the B-283 with a bass |
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Bass, as in instrument, that is- not a fish.
I have a B-283 on order, and I am curious about how to use it in conjunction with an electric bass, acoustic bass pickup (piezo), and an acoustic bass mic (XLR).
My main bass head is an Epifani UL502. I'm guessing that the way to go is to run a MONO quarter inch to "Y" stereo RCA cable out of the effects send, which plugs into the B-283, then a RCA stereo "Y" to MONO quarter inch back into the return on the amp head. This would basically treat the B-283 like any other effects pedal.
If that's the way to go, then I guess that works with any bass I have- piezo, mic, electric, etc...
I was also wondering if it's a possibility to buy (or probably make) an instrument cable that's a quarter inch on the instrument end, but splits to an RCA to run straight into the the B-283, thus cutting the bass head out all together. I was thinking of this use more for computer recording.
I've spent a lot of time learning bass, but not a whole lot of time learning electronics, so please be patient with me if these are stupid questions.
Oh, and can it make a fish taste better? I heard it was a magic box...
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: How to use the B-283 with a bass |
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| Bassphil wrote: | Bass, as in instrument, that is- not a fish.
I have a B-283 on order, and I am curious about how to use it in conjunction with an electric bass, acoustic bass pickup (piezo), and an acoustic bass mic (XLR).
My main bass head is an Epifani UL502. I'm guessing that the way to go is to run a MONO quarter inch to "Y" stereo RCA cable out of the effects send, which plugs into the B-283, then a RCA stereo "Y" to MONO quarter inch back into the return on the amp head. This would basically treat the B-283 like any other effects pedal.
If that's the way to go, then I guess that works with any bass I have- piezo, mic, electric, etc...
I was also wondering if it's a possibility to buy (or probably make) an instrument cable that's a quarter inch on the instrument end, but splits to an RCA to run straight into the the B-283, thus cutting the bass head out all together. I was thinking of this use more for computer recording.
I've spent a lot of time learning bass, but not a whole lot of time learning electronics, so please be patient with me if these are stupid questions.
Oh, and can it make a fish taste better? I heard it was a magic box... |
Of course it can make Fish taste better if your a groupy 
Yes, most music stores sell a 1/4" to RCA (and vice versa) adapters or cables (I used to have lots for home studio use). If you are running a mono signal, you can use just one channel, both channels in parallel (mono split) or both channels in series (out one channel into the other).
The concept is to use the B-283 prior to amplification or recording and to remember it is a line level device that does not amplifiy. In a pre out/in or FX loop is also just fine.
What you should find on stage is that you can play about 3 db quieter and still have the presence and feel of more volume. In the studio, just use it when ever you are going to digital or mixing down.
The power switch is no thump, so you can the B-283 dry by powering down, you will lose about 2 to 4 db of volume powered down.
When you get it I'm sure you'll figure it out fairly quickly. Enjoy and if I haven't answered your questions, ask again I truly enjoy yapping about making music too, I spent a good part of my life attempting it.
Ian
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Bassphil
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 11
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: How to use the B-283 with a bass |
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| igrant wrote: |
Of course it can make Fish taste better if your a groupy
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Wow, good comeback! Thanks for the quick reply. Just to clarify a few things...
| Quote: | | or both channels in series (out one channel into the other) |
Cool. So I would wire a mono RCA from the source to the R side, then a small RCA jumper between the two L sides, then a RCA mono cable from the other R side to the amp or preamp, right?
I'm just learning about the inner workings of these kind of things- thanks for being patient! I'm just curious. Does running in a series affect the sound in different way than running a parallel (mono split)?
In a series, I'm guessing that one tube does something to the signal, then when you pass it through another tube it doubles the effect? You mention that one tube adds volume (about 3db). Does wiring in a series add double the amount of gain to about 6db?
I can't wait to get my hands on it and start experimenting!
Oh, one more question. Do you think it boosts the signal to use as a phono preamp for a turntable??
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: How to use the B-283 with a bass |
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| Bassphil wrote: | | igrant wrote: |
Of course it can make Fish taste better if your a groupy
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Wow, good comeback! Thanks for the quick reply. Just to clarify a few things...
| Quote: | | or both channels in series (out one channel into the other) |
Cool. So I would wire a mono RCA from the source to the R side, then a small RCA jumper between the two L sides, then a RCA mono cable from the other R side to the amp or preamp, right?
I'm just learning about the inner workings of these kind of things- thanks for being patient! I'm just curious. Does running in a series affect the sound in different way than running a parallel (mono split)?
In a series, I'm guessing that one tube does something to the signal, then when you pass it through another tube it doubles the effect? You mention that one tube adds volume (about 3db). Does wiring in a series add double the amount of gain to about 6db?
I can't wait to get my hands on it and start experimenting!
Oh, one more question. Do you think it boosts the signal to use as a phono preamp for a turntable?? |
You are right on everything but using it as a phono pre-amp, the B-283 does not amplify (something in the works though:). The P-307 does that and everything the B-283 does.
Look forward to hearing about your experiments, the boss won't let me play on the music making side at the moment.
Ian
Cheers,
Ian
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Bassphil
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hello again,
I received the B-283 a little while ago- man, what a cool looking box!
I have a few questions about set up that I'm hoping you have a answer for.
I wanted to use it with my electric bass, so I bought a pair or really good RCA to 1/4" adapters. Specifically, they're RCA to 1/4" MONO adapters.
I ran the in's and out's of the B-283 into RCA cables, which had these RCA to 1/4" mono adapters connected to them, then plugged the 1/4" ends into the send and return of my bass head. All I get is a bunch of noise. I tried it with another bass amp as well- same thing.
Instead of using RCA to 1/4" mono adapters, do I have to use a RCA to 1/4" cable- an actual cord that has RCA at one end and a 1/4" plug at the other? Or is the problem the MONO aspect of the adapter? I'm guessing that the jack on the bass amp isn't a stereo jack, though...
Okay, my next question is about running the signal through both tubes in what I guess is called a series. Which two RCA jacks do I wire together on the B-283? I tried the method listed earlier in this thread, but it seemed that it should have been wired the other way.
In other words, this seems to be the way:
Send from bass effects loop to R input of B-283
RCA jumper from the L input to the R output of the B-283
RCA from the L output of the B-283 to the return on bass amp
Right? So the signal runs from the amp to the B-283's R input, hits the first tube, gets routed through the 2nd tube, then runs out of the B-283's L output back to the bass amp.
Sorry to bother you with this. Thanks in advance for your help!
-Phil
www.philpalombi.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bassphil wrote: | Hello again,
I received the B-283 a little while ago- man, what a cool looking box!
I have a few questions about set up that I'm hoping you have a answer for.
I wanted to use it with my electric bass, so I bought a pair or really good RCA to 1/4" adapters. Specifically, they're RCA to 1/4" MONO adapters.
I ran the in's and out's of the B-283 into RCA cables, which had these RCA to 1/4" mono adapters connected to them, then plugged the 1/4" ends into the send and return of my bass head. All I get is a bunch of noise. I tried it with another bass amp as well- same thing.
Instead of using RCA to 1/4" mono adapters, do I have to use a RCA to 1/4" cable- an actual cord that has RCA at one end and a 1/4" plug at the other? Or is the problem the MONO aspect of the adapter? I'm guessing that the jack on the bass amp isn't a stereo jack, though...
Okay, my next question is about running the signal through both tubes in what I guess is called a series. Which two RCA jacks do I wire together on the B-283? I tried the method listed earlier in this thread, but it seemed that it should have been wired the other way.
In other words, this seems to be the way:
Send from bass effects loop to R input of B-283
RCA jumper from the L input to the R output of the B-283
RCA from the L output of the B-283 to the return on bass amp
Right? So the signal runs from the amp to the B-283's R input, hits the first tube, gets routed through the 2nd tube, then runs out of the B-283's L output back to the bass amp.
Sorry to bother you with this. Thanks in advance for your help!
-Phil
www.philpalombi.com |
On your bass amp is the send/receive a single jack? If so it is a stereo jack, which means one part for one send one for return.
Send from bass effects loop to R input of B-283
RCA jumper from the L input to the R output of the B-283
RCA from the L output of the B-283 to the return on bass amp
is correct, except I would say jumper form the R output to the L input just to keep the signal flow logical.
Just an idea, can you run it with your stereo or in a mixing board just to confirm it is working ok?
PM me your phone number and I'll give you a call when you are by your rig.
Ian
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Bassphil
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the quick reply!
I just plopped it between my preamp and power amp of my stereo and it sounded great. I think I just found a home for it when I'm not on the road. It was dead quiet.
The two bass amps that I've tried it on did have separate send and return jacks.
I just plugged it into the amp again to see if I could be more specific about what was going on. Now, for some reason, I'm not getting the full on static attack that I was getting- which is nice. I must have had a bad cable before, though I remember switching cables because of that possibility.
Anyway, Stereo RCA to mono 1/4" seems to be working, though there's a lot more low level static with my bass amp. There's a constant helicopter click, kind of a "fftht-fftht-fftht-fftht fftht" sound that's noticeable in the background even if the B-283 is powered down. Also, when it powers on or off, there's a rush of loud static for about 10 seconds while the tubes are activated.
I wired it up in a series like you suggested, and the same noise was there. Also, in both configurations, there's a slight distortion to the sound that I wasn't getting when I had it wired into the stereo.
Is it possible that I'm having some kind of ground issue with the bass amp? I'm plugged into a good outlet...
Thanks again for your time!
Oh, and thanks for the offer to call. I'll pm you when I have time- maybe this week if we don't solve the problem sooner. I think it's close.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Have you patched anything else thru your send/return before?
When you power up the B-283 does your amp get louder?
Doesn't sound like a ground issue, but should be on the same outlet as the amp.
What is your amp and a link to the specs or manual please if you can.
Ian
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Bassphil
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| igrant wrote: | Have you patched anything else thru your send/return before?
When you power up the B-283 does your amp get louder?
Doesn't sound like a ground issue, but should be on the same outlet as the amp.
What is your amp and a link to the specs or manual please if you can.
Ian |
Okay, I'm back. I have used the send and returns before with no problem, and it's a relatively new amp.
Yep, it definitely gets louder.
Everything's on the same outlet.
It's an Epifani UL502 head- http://www.epifani.com/products/ul502.php
I recorded the noise it's making with my Zoom H4. Here's a link to download a compressed folder with three mp3's:
http://www.philpalombi.com/forum_images/PhilPalombi.zip
I recorded it using the RCA to mono adapters), with out the B-283 plugged into the amp at all, and with the B-283 running in series with the RCA jumper.
Let me know if what I'm hearing is normal. If it is, then I guess that's the price of phatness. I just though it was peculiar since it was dead quiet when running through my home stereo.
Once again, thanks for your time.
-Phil
www.philpalombi.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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is it possble to try just one channel of the B-238 at a time?. Might be a tube !! Will send out another set. Btw, you might have fun trying different types of tubes in the B-283 too.
Try swapping tubes in the one channel, also make sure they are seated properly.
Thanks for the recordings, helps a lot and nice to hear
You also may want to try putting the B-283 behind your rig, move it around until it is the quietest.
Couldn't find a manual for your 502 or a pic of the back, does it have a series/parrele switch for the FX loop? If so try that too.
Ian
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Bassphil
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| igrant wrote: | is it possble to try just one channel of the B-238 at a time?. Might be a tube !! Will send out another set. Btw, you might have fun trying different types of tubes in the B-283 too.
Try swapping tubes in the one channel, also make sure they are seated properly.
Thanks for the recordings, helps a lot and nice to hear
You also may want to try putting the B-283 behind your rig, move it around until it is the quietest.
Couldn't find a manual for your 502 or a pic of the back, does it have a series/parrele switch for the FX loop? If so try that too.
Ian |
Hi Ian,
Okay, the plot thickens yet again. I just tried every conceivable configuration with the Epifani, and that weird helicopter sound never changes. I even set the B-283 about two feet from the Epifani.
Then, as I was about to pack it in for the afternoon, I realized that my Walter Woods bass head was sitting right there, and it too has an effects loop. I hooked it up to the Woods and everything was perfectly quiet! Hmmmm....
Here's the differences that I can see between the two heads.
The Epifani is 600w, and the effects loop has a series and parallel switch. It's also only few years old at the most.
The Walter Woods is a 300w head, and the effects loop doesn't have a series and parallel switch. I bought it back in '94.
I've also tried the B-283 through a Agular bass head at a rehearsal studio in Manhattan and had the same noise. I have a rehearsal there again tonight- I'll bring it with me again and try it through a few different bass amps to see what happens.
Thanks again for your help!
-Phil
www.philpalombi.com
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Listening to some of your music with my studio Sennheiser HD 540's and thinking that running the masters thru the B-283 would be cool, add some more depth to the sound. Heathrow Shuffle would be quite good for audiophile system testing.
Interesting sidenote is that when we (audiophiles) set up supertweeters, we usually listen to the acoustic bass as the reference. The basically unhearable upper harmonics (15khz and up) really makes a difference to the snap or attack of the string. I can see bass rigs with massive supertweeters in the future
How did it sound with the Walter Woods?. If no switch it would likely be in series, meaning the signal patch is thru whatever is plugged in and if parallel you can mix the FX and dry sound. I'll assume you tried the Epifani in series mode too.
I'll ask our service tech to look into this too.
Thanks,
Ian
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Bassphil
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| igrant wrote: | Listening to some of your music with my studio Sennheiser HD 540's and thinking that running the masters thru the B-283 would be cool, add some more depth to the sound. Heathrow Shuffle would be quite good for audiophile system testing.
Interesting sidenote is that when we (audiophiles) set up supertweeters, we usually listen to the acoustic bass as the reference. The basically unhearable upper harmonics (15khz and up) really makes a difference to the snap or attack of the string. I can see bass rigs with massive supertweeters in the future
How did it sound with the Walter Woods?. If no switch it would likely be in series, meaning the signal patch is thru whatever is plugged in and if parallel you can mix the FX and dry sound. I'll assume you tried the Epifani in series mode too.
I'll ask our service tech to look into this too.
Thanks,
Ian |
Hi Ian, thanks for checking out my tunes. I've never heard of super tweeters before. I'll have to look into them and call Epifani up to see what they can do. It's nice to know that audiophiles understand what the acoustic bass is supposed to sound like. So many producers like to use the bass to add low end to the entire mix, rather than mix the bass by itself first and get a full sound.
I took it to a rehearsal studio last night and plugged it into the Agular amp that they had. I didn't get a helicopter click like the Epifani, but it I was getting more static. This amp didn't have a series and parallel "switch"- it had series and parallel knobs that you used to dial in the amount of effect that you desired.
With the Walter Woods, it was dead silent and sounded great. It seems that any amp with an actual switch for series and parallel mode causes the B-283 to kick off noise. I don't suppose you have any bassists working in your shop? Maybe they could drag their amp into work one day.
When I have a second, I'll dig out my wife's keyboard amp and see what happens.
I'll check in again soon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi Phil,
It sounds like any sort of mixing as side chain FX causes some sort of issue with your B-283. You may want to let your wife play with it too. It works great on the outputs of digital keyboards and synths. See www.iangrant.ca for some of my music making side.
I always started a mix (live or studio) with the Kick and Bass, then built the mix around it, you may enjoy one of my Xmas tunes with 3 bass players . My cousin being one of them.
It was tested on some Bass heads without any problems, but not in the FX loop, usually after the pre. We do offer a 21 day trial on this, which I have no problems extending a bit to see if we can make it work on your rig.
If we had schematics or at least a manual for your amp it could help us sort this out. We do plan on a pro version with 1/4" and balanced, but it will be more expensive. I like the $150 price for most musicians.
Thanks for your efforts, it is very helpfull, I know you'd rather be playing with great tone, than troubleshooting.
Ian
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Bassphil
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Hi Ian,
Sorry it's taken me soo long to get back to you with an update. I've discovered something very interesting.
I tried the B-283 with a few more amplifiers and had mixed results in terms of any extra noise. However, I've found that this has nothing to do with the B-283!
On a hunch, I went back to my Epifani setup to listen for that helicopter noise again. It is noticable with the B-283 plugged in, right? As I said before, I took the B-283 out of the mix and it went away. Well, as it turns out, that isn't true.
I've found that if I turn the Epifani completely up- all the way to 11 - and stick my head to the speaker cabinet, I can hear that same helicopter sound! Because it's a 600W head, I've never had the thing up past 4, so I've never hear it before. So, it seems that the B-283, in addition to adding it's cool funky tube-y thing to the sound, is bringing out that weird aspect of the Epifani.
Cool. So there's nothing wrong with the B-283. I didn't think there was, but it's nice to be sure. I am definitely interested in a musician-specific version when you put one on the market. Please keep me posted.
By the way, I've already used the B-283 on a bunch of gigs, and it's attracting a lot of attention. I may be sending some people your way 
In addition to running it on gigs, and in my stereo, I figured out a way to bounce tracks through it with my mBox and ProTools. Heck, I'm going to find a way to insert it between my coffee bean grinder and French press to make my morning coffee hipper!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Phil,
Please keep us posted on the morning coffee thing
And thanks for the update. Did you get my PM about some music for our upcoming GF demo disk.
Cheers,
Ian
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Bassphil
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| igrant wrote: | Hey Phil,
Please keep us posted on the morning coffee thing
And thanks for the update. Did you get my PM about some music for our upcoming GF demo disk.
Cheers,
Ian |
Hi Ian,
No, I didn't get a PM from you. You can email me through my website (www.philpalombi.com) or at phil"at"philpalombi.com (I wrote it without the @ sign to cut down on automated spam...)
Drop me a line!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Hey Phil,
Thanks for the CD's. I've done a once thru with them. Great sound, performances and music. I'll give them a real serious listen to over the next few days to pick which songs I'm interested in for the GF demo disk.
Happy New Year,
Ian
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